More Effective Laser Treatments in Near Future? - Rosacea Knowledge Forum by Dr. Geoffrey Nase - Advancements in Rosacea Treatments, Rosacea Research, Rosacea News & Rosadyn Therapy

Dr. Geoffrey Nase · #1 (**permalink**) 2nd February 2010, 04:19 AM

More Effective Laser Treatments in the Near Future?

I am putting together a report on a multicenter study being performed to evaluate the effect of different lasers and laser protocols on the treatment of facial vascular disorders.

Several University clinics are using 3-D imaging techniques with state of the art gadgets to evaluate the removal of facial blood vessels at different levels of the skin and how to improve laser effectiveness with different contact gels, combination laser approaches and identify what size vessels AND what angles these vessels are at, in each layer of the skin.... this gives us a much better standard protocol for all laser physicians.

Another group is using radiolabelled dye to evaluate permanent removal of blood vessels -- the best protocols to use to ensure permanent removal of blood vessels and replacement with healthy connective tissue. This same group hopes to follow up this study with a clinical study to evaluate how to best reduce the number and reactivity of pain, burning, stinging and heat-sensitive nerves via neuronal radiolabelling techniques. No more burning faces in the future???? Half the treatments, twice the response???

No need for biopsies anymore as they can perform these tests with noninvasive medical equipment.

This is some of the best news in a while.

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Minnesotawild · #2 (**permalink**) 3rd February 2010, 01:00 PM

I think the best thing to do to improve laser treatments is to Improve a flushing protocol. The Lasers & IPl are pretty good at removing vessels when used by a good technician. The problem is that patients have to have a good flush in order for the laser to pick up the target. Formulating a topical or oral med that would turn a patient cherry red and open up the shunt vessels before treatment would improve treatments drastically. The laser cannot remove what it cannot see. I would think there would be a lot of money to be made by developing a flushing med for clinics to use pre treatment. They would get better results and make more money because right now they are losing patients who walk away after a treatment or two with poor results.

Dr. Geoffrey Nase · #3 (**permalink**) 4th February 2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesotawild

I think the best thing to do to improve laser treatments is to Improve a flushing protocol. The Lasers & IPl are pretty good at removing vessels when used by a good technician. The problem is that patients have to have a good flush in order for the laser to pick up the target. Formulating a topical or oral med that would turn a patient cherry red and open up the shunt vessels before treatment would improve treatments drastically. The laser cannot remove what it cannot see. I would think there would be a lot of money to be made by developing a flushing med for clinics to use pre treatment. They would get better results and make more money because right now they are losing patients who walk away after a treatment or two with poor results.

I agree with you on better flushing protocols. I have always been one of the biggest advocates for preflushing... but, I also think we need to understand the physiology and pathophysiogy better so we are not shooting blind.

You are correct about the skin adapting to niacin after a while but that is usually repeated flushes on a daily basis, not separated by weeks in between laser treatments.

There are newer, better supplements that will make everyone flush, even non-rosaceans. Mostly supplements developed for bodybuilders to increase nitric oxide... one of our biggest flushing molecules, prostaglandins, and leukotrienes.

1. Keto-arginine is a big one
2. NOS fuel is my favorite - this will flush every blood vessel in your face from the deepest feed vessels to the superficial ones

Great post

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Minnesotawild · #4 (**permalink**) 11th March 2010, 09:30 PM

Hi Dr Nase, I plan on having some IPL done here soon and I want to test out some flushing protocols before hand. I cannot find anything on NOS fuel. Is this the energy drink NOS ? I looked at gnc for NOS FUEL for bodybuilders but couldn't find anything. I also was not able to find much on Keto-Arginine. I found a lot on L Arginine but not keto arginine. I really need your help on this because I am a firm believer that the better the flush, The better the results and to get excellant results you need a good deep flush. If you can give me the exact name of a few products that would be great. Im not a huge Niacin fan

Thank You

Chris D · #5 (**permalink**) 23rd March 2010, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesotawild

Hi Dr Nase, I plan on having some IPL done here soon and I want to test out some flushing protocols before hand. I cannot find anything on NOS fuel. Is this the energy drink NOS ? I looked at gnc for NOS FUEL for bodybuilders but couldn't find anything. I also was not able to find much on Keto-Arginine. I found a lot on L Arginine but not keto arginine. I really need your help on this because I am a firm believer that the better the flush, The better the results and to get excellant results you need a good deep flush. If you can give me the exact name of a few products that would be great. Im not a huge Niacin fan

Thank You

I found the NOS Fuel at a Body Building Forum and ordered some as I am in the same boat. I've used oral and topical niacin for better results, but the itching and swelling are not pleasant.

You can get NOS Fuel in liquid and capsule form. I emailed Dr. Nase and he told me to use the liquid form for better timing as the absorption is more predictable and the duration is longer due to increased availability.

Hope that helps Minnesota.

Chris

Minnesotawild · #6 (**permalink**) 25th March 2010, 06:17 PM

Thanks Chris! Please let me know How it works after you have tried the liquid form. I am very interested to know the results. I would like to start IPL in April but only if I know I can induce a great flush prior to treatment. I've found in the past this works the best.

Dr. Geoffrey Nase · #7 (**permalink**) 1st April 2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesotawild

Hi Dr Nase, I plan on having some IPL done here soon and I want to test out some flushing protocols before hand. I cannot find anything on NOS fuel. Is this the energy drink NOS ? I looked at gnc for NOS FUEL for bodybuilders but couldn't find anything. I also was not able to find much on Keto-Arginine. I found a lot on L Arginine but not keto arginine. I really need your help on this because I am a firm believer that the better the flush, The better the results and to get excellant results you need a good deep flush. If you can give me the exact name of a few products that would be great. Im not a huge Niacin fan

Thank You

Minnesota,

Did you ever find the Keto-arginine supplement to induce flushing?

Here is an excellent link for nitric oxide stimulating supplements: Flushing-supplements

You will find an extensive list of products at the bottom of the page. Please keep us posted on your use of these products for flushing.

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Dr. Geoffrey Nase · #8 (**permalink**) 16th June 2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minnesotawild

Thanks Chris! Please let me know How it works after you have tried the liquid form. I am very interested to know the results. I would like to start IPL in April but only if I know I can induce a great flush prior to treatment. I've found in the past this works the best.

Minnesota,

You said you purchased a facial steamer to pre-flush? Have you tried it yet?

Dr. Geoffrey Nase · #9 (**permalink**) 9th August 2010, 06:53 AM

It's a whole new world out there....

3-D imaging of blood vessel size, orientation, number and proximity is now available pre-laser treatment and real-time during laser treatment. This can actually tell you if your treatment was successful at the cellular level during treatment and if they need to target that spot again for further treatment.

Research teams now use nanotechnology and established super paramagnetic micellar nanoprobes (50-70 nm in diameter) with greatly improved imaging source sensitivity over conventional small molecular agents. The nanoprobe surface was functionalized with integrins that are a cyclic peptide that can specifically bind to overexpressed on endothelial cells (inner lining of blood vessels). The nanoprobes also had a fluorescent moiety used for the validation of targeted delivery to the endothelial cells.

..... wouldn't it be great to have one laser treatment and then be done......

...... it might be possible soon.

mrsmoof · #10 (**permalink**) 9th August 2010, 02:18 PM

How Soon? Is this technology available today for doctors to use? Or is it still being studied?

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